60 replies to this topic

[Commander Mongo]

Wait so the Wolves and White Scars are creating a third faction, but staying in their original faction? I'm a little perplexed at the point of this.

As I've said before, while the Wolves and Scars will fill the ranks of the GK, there are a few others from other factions.
As for why...
Again, as previously stated, the group of us enjoy playing with one another, we have a core vision for the GK and wish to battle the other factions with it, together. That's the long and short of it. We get to play in many more competitive matches, with a different interpersonal dynamic, and new roles.

We will all retain our original Chapter oaths, as that is who we are, and bonds of brotherhood forged in blood and battle shall never break.

[TheGodDernMan]

Rule #13 of the Dark Angel Code:

13: Members are NOT allowed to represent another Chapter while in The Dark Angel's! If you are in the Dark Angel's, You are a Dark Angel! Not a Blood Angel/Salamander/Ultramarine ect.... Failure to comply results in immediate removal from the Chapter.

http://gothicwars.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=682

The Dark Angels don't allow dual memberships. We have had these rules since our Chapter Creation.

[skotten]

Any wolf you would like to join in is free to do so, and i thank mongo for his innovation in coming up with something new.

This is at most simpily put the same as when a bunch of us from various chapters get together on public games and play. And taking it to the next step to play against factions. And if it happens to be against the wolves then i for one would seriously enjoy that match, and have no problems in handing the reins to any one of my pack leaders for said match.

And would be cool if chaos were to have an opposite, say perhaps Alpha Legion?

[Domine Nox]

But you can get together and play with others anyways. I'm not forced to play with the people in my faction. Any arrangement can be made. Hence why I wonder at the necessity for a whole additional group for mixing things up a little. Things can be mixed up just by choosing to.

[Commander Mongo]

Yes! A chaos variant would be fantastic! Perhaps a best of the best type of set up?
In any case I could see this being very enjoyable and intense!

With regards to SUPREME GRAND MASTER (j/k I had to) Dern's posting:
The GK, while open to applications, remain for the time being and Invite Only Chapter.
With that I will assure you that no Dark Angels have been asked to join, nor will they now going forward out of respect.


(also if there

[TheGodDernMan]

lol Thats good to hear Mongo, Thank you.

[Commander Mongo]

But you can get together and play with others anyways. I'm not forced to play with the people in my faction. Any arrangement can be made. Hence why I wonder at the necessity for a whole additional group for mixing things up a little. Things can be mixed up just by choosing to.

Why at this point is Irrelevant, a large contingent of active members (and a few new ones)wish to make this happen for the reasons that have been at this point well documented. I fail to see the disconnect here...
If you do not wish to partake in the "all the reindeer games" then so it shall be.
I mean no disrespect here, but it's getting more than a little frustrating that this is a subject of a debate, and or it's validity questioned repeatedly.

[Roey]

So if there were to be a choas alternative, who would be allowed in that? I think it would be a great idea to have say a World eater Kill team, Alpha legion infiltraitors, Black Legion Obliterator squad or even getting that 'Thousand son' chapter set up and having a select group of sorcerers being hunted down by the GK?

Theres loads you could do with this idea, it just depends on how you want to go about it/who you want invite. Its a delicate situation, and it might be an idea to see how people react to the GK's first.

I do agree with Nox however that it doesnt really need a new chapter being created (or the confusion that comes with it) to be able to play with your mates from other chapters. Its a nice role-playing idea, but it serves no real purpose.

Thats not to say the idea shouldnt 'poll'd' first to see what everyone else thinks. Theres many pro's and con's to debate before going ahead with this idea.

Forgive me if I speak out of turn.
Roey.

[SpecSlaughter22]

wait so its an all star team? like the globe trotters? meh i have no problem with it:-p as long as the members stay loyal to their home chapters....wait isnt that what deathwatch is??...O.o

[CruciasNZ]

I think this has a damn good chance of splitting the community. Some will resent people for having dual-loyalties. IMO it's not worth the hassle, you can always just group up and PUG an all-star group if you want to.

[Commander Mongo]

::PREFACE::
Please forgive me any "frustration overflow"
::/PREFACE::

Brothers Nox and Roey,
We have not only considered this (speaking of "just playing together"), we have been doing it.
We have armour and color schemes set, including command squad and veteran variations, in addition to multiple team strategies, dedicated player rolls, unit specific battle cant, hell even a facebook page that is almost done.



My frustration stems from this:

1: We are some of the more active members in the community, at least 4 of whom are Mods that have really done nothing but try to expand and improve the overall experience and offered their aid where and when, and to whom it is needed.
So it's not like we won't make use of the Chapter.

2: We have already done 98% of the work on this, all we ask is to Add the Chapter, we have the rest in place.

3: For the life of me I can't see how this is all that confusing, in fact this should remove confusion.
If we "just played together" and started challenging other factions it would be chaos and a lot of extra work. Our opponents would want to know who they are facing, which would be listed on the roster. There would also be a place next to the others where we could be challenged.

Who knows, if we are "allowed" to do this, not only will it work, but maybe it could spawn something like the chaos/gk all star type epic battle above...
...Oh wait, that just happened.

4: Why should there be a poll on this, or debate at all? I understand that my original post fell short of my mark as far as clarity, but was there a poll when the deathwatch was formed? When was the debate about creating the the White Scars.
We have met all the requirements listed, and answered all the questions presented in a respectful and timely manner, numerous times now.

5: Asking us why we would want or need this to be a separate faction, really?
Aside from the repetitive responses you already have been given, I have no other way of explaining other than this...
Why did you want the seperate Chapter/warbands that you have now? You could have "just played together online", right? No need to set up anything when you use that logic...

6: Honestly, as adults here, how is this harming the community in anyway?

Because that's the only reason something this organized, and thought out should be met with such resistance...

[Commander Mongo]

RE: +++ /I/TO: All Astartes Command of Gothic Wars+++
I think this has a damn good chance of splitting the community. Some will resent people for having dual-loyalties. IMO it's not worth the hassle, you can always just group up and PUG an all-star group if you want to.


Are you fucking kidding me!?!?
If this community is that fragile and so unfathomably petty, that 15 of its more active members forming a new faction to get a different game play experience and add a little variety to increasingly this stagnant and monotonous match cycle, the result would be a melodramatic schism of GW. If this is what you are actually telling me, Sir, then I must apologize, sincerely.
I apologize because I, have then mistakenly wasted my time and yours here, thinking that this was a community of like minded ADULTS, who simply wanted to make the game a more rewarding experience. Not Mrs.Krabappel's 4th grade Jamboree,which is the only place where statements like the one you just made, would be acceptable, and even par for the course.

I'm sorry for the outburst, but many here have made honest attempt to improve and expand, myself included, yet the only response that is given is resistance, refusal, and resentment....

Seriously guys, if this is the kind of community that you want to have, you can count myself and many others out.

[TheGodDernMan]

Well because in making the Dark Angels I didn't say "Yo Crimson fist, a few of you are now Elite dark angels, the rest of you are ehh whatever"

That would be why.

[Gerhart]

I think the issue spawns from being leaders of other chapters. It seems to me you are tip-toeing around the old chapters. Skotten even admited to handing over the reins of his chapter to another member when his new chapter played his old other one.

Frankly I don't give a shit who you play with or what chapter to call yourselves. Yö has to be the ones as leaders to make your other chapters still be interested as you go o play with your "all-star" team. I will leave that moniker alone as it says it all.

So have fun merge the Melta and VL spam into one "all-star" team have at it. But it's going to be tough to assure your old chapters that your not abandoning them.

My personal opinion is shit or get off the pot. It seems like to guys are trying to not upset he old chapters. We know what's coming so just do it.

With all that said, I have nonissue wih you all doing this. Just don't expect your chapters to survive with the leaders leaving or being part of a new "all-star" team. So good luck, I have no issue with then getting here own tag and special section.

[CruciasNZ]

I will allow this to exist as a chapter on here, even though it breaks with our traditions and methods, as long as you agree to meet the single following condition:

You allow all members to apply, and only allow entry to the BEST of the BEST players and only retain members if they maintain that status (which includes activity). Basically running it as an elite club only accepting the best players and only keeping the best. You'd obviously have to come up with some form of fair and harsh entry test.

What do the others think of this?

[Darksaint]

I'm seriously confused by the confusion and troubled by the fact judging by Cru 's last post the idea seems to be getting shelved before it's had a chance ! Can't understand y this could possibly cause problems or division other than it's creation being refused without even being voted on by council members ! Also re campaign I was told I could join another faction in that with the permission of my faction leader so what's the difference???? Seriously wtf ????????
Posted this then saw tons of others had been added as I was writing it so I shall leave it here fir posterity but most of my issues appear to have been addressed thnks

[Roey]

You make a good argument brother, you do, and by no means do not take my previous post against your idea, infact the start of my previous post stated how much I thought it was a good idea, but alas, I am still uneasy on the topic.

Its true what you say about 'Confusion', adding yourselves to another chapter would make it easier to organise matches, but again, to counteract that argument, people may resent the fact that you have two teams to play for and they can only have one; running the risk of some kind of uprising regarding the original rules of GW, which I presume nobody want to sort out, and is therefore why I suggested the 'poll' as a comprimise in order to get the communities view on the idea.


Anyway, my brothers plan to fill me in later which Im looking forward to.

All the best.
Roey.

EDIT: After reading the posts you made while I wrote this one, regarding an 'uprising'/'pettyness', psychologically speaking, crowds are more likely to follow an authoritarian rule rather than their own; That being that people ultimatley prefer to follow rules instead of thinking for themselves. This may be a hard concept to understand in contex with this argument, but it makes sense if you think about it.

[CruciasNZ]

It's not being shelved, I actually like the idea, assuming it has my condition in it.

Mongo is right, the cycle of games can get stagnant, especially when you're restricted to Vanilla maps because people have different DLCs. I don't think I have EVER had a game on the newer maps oO

Pride could be one hell of a motivation, and then there is the ironic glee that comes with bashing your friends heads in.

EDIT: Just checked that I do indeed have a GK banner

[Apulo]

I just don't think that everyone here understands what it takes to create a new chapter on the website.

It's not just a matter of BOOM there you go, a spiffy new chapter banner on your profile. It takes some work. This is why we originally came up with rules on forming new chapters so that we aren't creating new chapters constantly. Take that into consideration please.

Remember also that Crucias and I devote a lot of time to this website and both have LONG to-do lists. If we are wary about some requests, it's because they take us away from our work. All of the admins on the site are devoted to making this work, in our spare time

[Kokokacho]

I see where you are coming from Mongo, and it doesn't bother me. I believe we in the Deathwatch may have had a practice run against some of the Grey Knights on sunday, correct? Fun games, all in all. But I also see where the other community leaders are coming from, about not neglecting your home chapters and keeping them unified and content, but I'm sure the lot of you have taken that into consideration already. Any way it shakes down, I'll be happy to meet you in battle any chance I get.

EDIT: If Crucias supports the idea, I don't see any problems with it. And also thanks to Crucias and Apulo for the work they put in for the benefit of the community. I need to find that Site Donations button when I next get paid