62 replies to this topic

[Tej]

Melta and heavy bolters maybe but they still are usually only just one guy in the squad if its not a devastator squad as such not exactly normal or typical in the usual armament of SM. Plasma weapons are rare so while its not unheard of its not common either. So like I said I avoided them due to how Tax wanted it.

As for being somewhat resistant to the force I have to agree. As I pointed out they have a strong will so mind games and manipulation is out the window for the Jedi. As for telekinesis it helps when fighting and giving an edge but it won't be enough to actually kill or really injure the SM unless your dealing with exceptional cases of force users and even then they would need enough time to concentrate to actually do something worthwhile that I doubt the SM will allow to happen.

P.S

General Grievous kind of supports the argument that SM would win. He had a strong will, highly skilled with weapons and was talented with tactics and strategy. His cybernetics made him as fast or faster then the average jedi, ditto with strength. He killed alot of Jedi in personal combat, sometimes several at a time. And a SM is far more enhanced then GG, more skilled in the ways of war, and has better weapons and armour.

[Authrix]

That and SM don't have massive holes in their armour for people to (literally) shoot their guts out.

[NJSniper00]

in the end i believe it comes down to this jedi have normal human characteristics where as space marines are considered beyond human. If they did fight each other yes the jedi have the force but SM are so much more i mean they fight choas and the warp which have almost like force powers. Yes the force can augment the jedi but that takes up there capacity to react apparently.

[Authrix]

Larger feats of force, such as pulling starships out of orbit require focus when the best Jedi are doing it. Most jedi simply can't. If one wanted to use the force in a meaningful way, they would have to stop and focus, giving the Sm oen large window of opportunity to strike.

[Tej]

Exactly, anything that any force user can somehow summon that would be strong enough to actually cause harm to a SM would require them to focus or at the very least stop jumping around for awhile and stand still for a bit for the truely talented. Either way its still an opening that a SM will take advantage of. He only needs 1 bolter round to hit and he wins(or punch, slash, etc).

And if a Jedi or Sith don't go that route they have to just keeping running away hoping to lose him(which they won't due to the SM keen senses and helmet sensors) or fight him where it will go back and forth dodging each others attack until finally the Jedi tires or slips up and a strike lands either killing or crippling the Jedi.

[Authrix]

The jedi could win (decap) but I really think the SM would take it the majority of the time. I'll be interested to see a counter argument though.

[Tej]

Yeah I pointed out that a decap can happen. But the odds are really bad, especially since a SM will quickly figure out this is the Jedi's only hope of winning while he has so many options.

I think the argument for the SM winning has been so thorough that I really can't see a valid counter argument turning the tide of this.

[Brother Agatone]

Ok here's a scenario you have marneus calgar and earth sidious, of course calgar would win, let's just weigh the possibilities.

[JC 042]

Larger feats of force, such as pulling starships out of orbit require focus when the best Jedi are doing it. Most jedi simply can't.

An Alpha+ Psyker can do twice that with half the effort for the record.

[Fallen Angels95]

hmmm...I had a very similar conovsation on the xbox yesterday. Who would win, Spartan or Space marine. Heres their good/bad points

SPARTAN

-7ft tall in armour
-gel layer
-can lift three times their own weight
-have enchanced combat abilities
-300% more effective than a human
-5 genetic augementations
-covered bones
-go through rigourous training
-max speed 65mph

SPACE MARINES

-7,8ft in MK7 power armour.
-shield layer
-can lift three times their weight
-19 genetic augementations
-over 1000% more effective than a human
-nigh unstoppable in combat
-unbeatable on a warzone/battlefield
-enhanced abilities
-3 lungs
-fused ribcage
-can match an eldars speed blow for blow
-go through rigourous training
-can shrug off anything less than a bombardment or heavy tank blast
-max speed 35mph

BAD POINTS

SPARTANS

-good in stealth but in an open conflict with high numbers are at a disavantage
- rapid combat skills but cant up hold it for long times.
-can't take too much firepower
- have a lower max pain limit than space marines (only 39 out of 200 spartans survived the spartan project 2)
- insta kill via tank

SPACE MARINES

-powerful but slower than spartans
-cannot manovour over rubble as well
- excels in all out combat but lacks in stealth (except scouts but theyre not full SM)
-Will never give in (good and bad in different situations)
-rapid combat skills but cannot hold up for extended periods of time



so who would win?

[Authrix]

Space marines can hold up for days without sleep, and without proper food. They're also far faster than a human in terms of maximum speed and reflexes. When you look at weapons, a Spartan brings a pea shooter with the SM has, essentially, a rapid fire RPG. Sorry, but it was never a competition. Sm wins hands down.

SM poops on Jedi, Jedi poops on Spartan, Spartan poops on Guardsmen.

[GK MadMan]

What about a space marine vs an ewok ? Lol pmsl

[Fallen Angels95]

well that is funny because they brought down the imperials so it could happn if it was a lone sm against the ENTIRE of endor lol

Authrix...dont just think about the weps...actually look at the facts. They are matched in someways and are better/worse in others. the Sm gives up rapid movement for power whilst the spartan equalises them

[Authrix]

Yes, but you're underplaying the SM. Spartan might be faster, but that doesn't mean the Sm is slow. And you can't ignore the weapons, because they're just as important as the warrior himself.

[GK MadMan]

It be quite funni the sm would just walk up to it and stomp on it

[Authrix]

Think Grots. Punch, punch, punch.

[Fallen Angels95]

Authrix...i'm not just on about weapons...yes the space marine is fast in some aspects but not as fast as the spartan...reflex wise he is faster but he cannot out run one. Weapon wise spacemarines die from wounds to the heart and head as easily as a mortal human. so it deends...the SM armour has weak points but not as many as a spartan..then again a SM is 38,000 years apart lol. weapons wise it would be like being hit 12 times by a brute shot to match a bolt round so it would be painful...but think on this a spartan laser...it's a VERY old version of the lascannon that can do some damage.they are not without their ups/downs but in a fist fight with no armour they would be tied. I prefer spacemarines but depending on the scenario they will not always be the victor

[Authrix]

Fallen.

Space marines have two hearts, three lungs, and other versions of duplicate organs. They are stronger than a Spartan, and Spartan lasers do about the same damage as a multi laser. (sourced from a friend on Dakkadakka.) Also, Space marines spit acid.

Spit acid. Like, acid that can melt through concrete.

Painful? If a spartan was hit by a Bolt round, his armour might stop it. But then, Spartans don't have much in the way of actual plating, whereas the SM has almost his entire body covered by his.

The only advantage the spartan could claim is that of stealth. Even then, the SM has autosenses, can focus his hearing to specific sounds and areas, doesn't have to sleep for days, and has advanced vision. With his helmet, he also has infra red, thermal and preysight, all of which would reveal a hiding Spartan. Sure, the Spartan might be faster at running, but then the marine will just heft up his bolter and put one in his back.

The Spartan might win. But an unarmoured Spartan (who only gets his strength buffs from the Mjolnir and gel) is not going to be the equal of a SM (superhuman, even before we put them in their armour.)

Sure, give the Spartan a missile launcher and a good hiding spot to ambush an unaware marine, and he'll most likely come out on top. Give the Marine any awareness of a fight, and it'll be entirely different.

Now, can we go back to Jedi vs Marine? Thank you.

[Fallen Angels95]

So are spartans...i'm not siding my view as it's TOTALLY one sided to the space marines lol..this is my mates argument

[Authrix]

What i love about that reply is that you can't even apply it to any specific part of my post. Sorry, but I've heard some ridiculous arguments for the Spartan, and a Marine wins hands down every time (well, almost).