67 replies to this topic

[Domine Nox]

The Iron Warriors succeeded in their plan to inflict overwhelming casualties on their hated rivals but failed to destroy the Imperial Fists entirely. The reasons for this failure have long been debated by Imperial historians. One school argues that while Perturabo could have destroyed the Imperial Fists at any moment once they were arrogant enough to fall into his trap, he did not do so because he actually relished Rogal Dorn's anguish at living with the knowledge that the Iron Warriors had bested their rivals. Another argument claims that the Iron Warriors simply lacked the determination to make the sacrifices necessary to completely eliminate the Imperial Fists. However, what remained of the Imperial Fists proved to be a hardened, veteran force willing and able to comply with the demands of the Codex Astartes, just as Dorn had intended.

I can find these excerpts everywhere it seems. The most glaring one in this excerpt standing out to me is "just as Dorn had intended," being the result of loosing many of his men.

Against the advice of his brother Primarch, Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines Legion, that no single Legion could effectively combat the defences the Iron Warriors had erected on Sebastus IV, Dorn launched the campaign with only his single Legion. Even worse, the assault was launched without the extensive planning and preparations that was usually so characteristic of the Imperial Fists.

This strikes me as another mistake of Dorn. He's too wrapped up in his world and his view, rather than accepting options and realities. His lack of tactics could well be to blame for the fiasco of the Siege of Terra as Horus outmaneuvered the crap out of him as self appointed commander with ease.

Your last part is just off, of course everyone has a different perspective. I choose to believe in Dorns. What you want to believe is up to you, untill they write a book about it; its all up in the air.

I can see why Dorn is your chosen Primarch.

[Gerhart]

I can find these excerpts everywhere it seems. The most glaring one in this excerpt standing out to me is "just as Dorn had intended," being the result of loosing many of his men.

Yes as I said before he intended that to be the result. He needed to break apart his legion that was totally devoted to him and staying together.

This strikes me as another mistake of Dorn. He's too wrapped up in his world and his view, rather than accepting options and realities. His lack of tactics could well be to blame for the fiasco of the Siege of Terra as Horus outmaneuvered the crap out of him as self appointed commander with ease.

Wheres the proof that Horus outmarneuvered him? They were outnumbered and held off long enough to force Horus into allowing a heads up fight. Also it wasn't self appointed, the Emperor brought him back after Horus was named Warmaster to protect Terra.

I can see why Dorn is your chosen Primarch.

This just comes off petty. As I said before straws my friend straws.

Dorn was honorable, upfront, LOYAL, blunty honest. His flaw being to trusting in "brothers," some what hot headed, but he always strived to correct that behaviour.

To attack Dorn's character his a joke. He was beyond repoach, untill books prove otherwise he will be my favorite. Also unlike Cruze he had no daddy didn't love me issues, nor was he ever jealous of his brothers.

Dorn did his duty.

[Yapay38]

Being serious now. I believe that this is over and done with. It has gone from a debate to picking apart each others sentence. If left to continue it'll be picking apart each others character and person. I suggest this thread is locked.

[Gerhart]

I believe this debate is over, I hope nothing I said was taken the wrong way. I don't wish animosity to build, I like you to much Nox. Truce?

[Domine Nox]

Wheres the proof that Horus outmarneuvered him?

See below.
http://warhammer40k....Battle_of_Terra

The Imperial Fists Legion's Primarch Rogal Dorn and the Regent of the Imperium, Malcador the Sigillite, receiving the few survivors from the Dropsite Massacre of Istvaan V as they retreated back to Terra, became aware of the full implications of their position and the strength of Horus and the Traitor forces. Rogal Dorn immediately recalled all Loyalist Imperial forces back to Terra in preparation for Horus' invasion. Of the Space Marine Legions still loyal to the Emperor, the Space Wolves had just completed the Burning of Prospero, the Thousand Sons Traitor Legion's homeworld near the Chondax System, where the White Scars were stationed. Without warning, the Alpha Legion's fleet broke from the Warp and engaged the Space Wolves forces of the Primarch Leman Russ, hammering his smaller fleet and forcing Russ to resort to hit-and-run attacks. The Alpha Legion's Primarch Alpharius also attacked the nearby forces of the White Scars piecemeal in an attempt to draw that larger Astartes Legion into conflict.

The White Scars' Primarch Jagahatai Khan wished desperately to aid Russ, yet as the Traitor Legions' starships attacked, he received the astropathic order from Rogal Dorn. Khan was to bring his Legion back to Terra, immediately. Dorn also commanded him to relay the order to Russ and add that should he succeed in evading his attackers, only then should he attempt to head for Terra. Relaying the message and adding his apology for his inability to aid the Space Wolves, the White Scars made for Terra. Russ resolved to meet the Alpha Legion with renewed determination. With help from an unlikely quarter, the Space Wolves would eventually turn the tables on their attackers and make the Warp jump to Terra, well after the siege on the Imperial Palace had begun.

Similarly at the world of Calth, the Ultramarines expeditionary force, battered by the relentless attacks of the Word Bearers, had dug in on the planet's surface, while Primarch Roboute Guilliman and the remnants of his Ultramarines' fleet began to organise hit-and-run attacks. Surveying the scene on the planet, Guilliman rapidly assessed his ground troops' positions, and began broadcasting orders to his men, co-ordinating each pocket of defence. One such pocket, under Brother-Captain Ventanus, organised a breakout, and retook Calth's defence cannons and laser silos, reaping a great tally of Traitor starships. Ventanus' victory evened the odds in space, buying time for the vast remainder of the Ultramarines Legion to arrive at Calth and drive the Traitors away. Reunited as a single force, the Ultramarines received Malcador's orders and set out for Terra, moving through the Warp as rapidly as they could even as they realised that they would probably arrive too late to make a difference.

As this happened, the Night Lords arrived in the Eastern Fringe of the galaxy to engage the Dark Angels, and the Iron Warriors' armada broke from the Warp to engage the Imperial Fists' fleet marooned near the Chaos Space Marines' headquarters world of Istvaan V. Surviving the initial thrust of the Iron Warriors' attacks, the Imperial Fists' armada held fast and scattered the Primarch Perturabo's fleet, then made their own Warp jump to Terra in a desperate race against time.

Meanwhile, in the Signis Cluster, the Blood Angels, granted new and terrible power by a mysterious mass rage (that would resurface again during the Siege of Terra) had triumphed, smashed the hordes of the Chaos daemons asunder and were able to make the Warp jump to Terra.

As the Warmaster was heading towards Terra he received an unexpected communication from the recently betrayed Thousand Sons Primarch Magnus the Red. The Space Wolves had driven the Thousand Sons from their homeworld of Prospero after being manipulated by Horus into attacking the Thousand Sons homeworld instead of simply taking Magnus into custody to return him peacefully to terra to face charges of the illegal use of sorcery by the Emperor. Devastated by the Space Wolves' destruction of his Legion's precious storehouses of knowledge about the Immaterium and sorcery, and having turned to the Chaos God Tzeentch to save himself and his Astartes Legion, Magnus pledged his allegiance and the allegiance of the Thousand Sons Legion to Horus and Chaos in retaliation against the Emperor for this betrayal. The Thousand Sons were en route to Terra where they would link up with Horus' forces.

Of the nine remaining Loyalist Space Marines Legions, only the White Scars and the Blood Angels were able to join Rogal Dorn and his Imperial Fists in the defence of Terra before the arrival of the Traitor Legions in the Solar System.

I can see why Dorn is your chosen Primarch.

This was not meant to be petty. This was me saying I can see why you chose him because you seem to have very similar traits. Birds of a feather and all that. Not an attack, an observation.

[Gerhart]

You said during the assault on Terra he was outmarneuvered I still dont see it. Yes, Horus outmaneuvered everyone with subterfuge before the assault on Terra.

But when it came to straight up fighting on Terra all we have to go on is that while outnumbered the loyalist held on till the other Legions arrived. When Horus realized he could not take Terra before they arrived he dropped his protection to allow the Emperor to board his ship.

This was not meant to be petty. This was me saying I can see why you chose him because you seem to have very similar traits. Birds of a feather and all that. Not an attack, an observation.

Understood, not butt hurt .

[Grimaldus]

thank the Emperor its settle between you two, no harsh feeling right?

btw i think that Rogal Dorn and Konrad Curze are both awesome

[Armoured Priest]

Ok, Now will a mod or admin please lock this thread. I know there is no animosity but it's like a rip in reality by daemon summoning, the barrier will always be thin where it was summoned.